Posts by Juan Viejo2

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

defender of truth offered the following comment:

According to a JW I've spoken to, who overheard a private conversation between some elders, the organisation is working on setting up THEIR OWN INTERNET SERVICE. One reason given by an elder was so that the website can't be blocked. He can't give any more details, he only heard part of what was said, but he is 100% trustworthy and I know he wouldn't have made it up.
What could be another reason behind this move?

Many companies, universities, charities and governments have their own private networks. It is feasible that the Watchtower could set up a network of their own and use it to stream programs to Kingdom Halls, email and documents to elders and middle range managers (COs, Branch Overseers, Construction managers, department heads). While it would be conceivable that they could use private satellites or wired networks for that kind of private network that would make it almost impenetrable, the cost v. benefit ratio would be excessive. With new technologies appearing almost daily, it is more likely that they would simply create a more secure system using the existing Internet structure or use some form of "cloud" technology to isolate their network from the public Internet based networks. They would still have to keep JW.org on the public Internet or it would lose its potential and reach.

Creating a private network that extends to and limits access to Watchtower HQ offices, corporate entities, branch offices would make some sense (that's what banks, large corporations and governments do). On the other hand, they would have to maintain some, if not a great deal of public access in order to support their proselytizing work.

Does no good to put JW.org signs, jewelry, T-shirts, etc. everywhere for people to see and then block access to their website. What I can see is the Watchtower moving all of its archival material onto a private network or making it nearly impossible to get to without regular attendance at a Kingdom Hall or being MS or above. They could change the passwords every month (or even every day) and distribute only to a shortlist of higher ranking elders. But for what? There are "apostate spies" among elders and within HQ building everywhere around the world. They will share what they can when they can. Many of us already have contacts who are deep inside, or are friends of others who are deep inside who like to gossip or share insider info.

The real truth will always find a way to leak out and apostates and secular critics will find a way to access data and publications. Do we care what their travel budgets are, or how much markup they have on their own rental cars? Can we expect to read internal documents from their legal, service or writing departments? Not likely. But do we really need to? We can see the effects of their internal workings - we don't need to see every memo or draft to forecast the problems they will have or the doctrines they will have to change.

If it gets to elder level or below, we will get access to it...

JV

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

Yesterday I got a call from a JW fader who shared this story:

---------------------------

He asked one of the elders at his Kingdom Hall if he had one of the earlier Watchtower CDs. He told the elder that he wanted to look up some articles from the 1980-1995 period. The elder asked him why he would want to do that? "Just to compare with what the Watchtower teaches now on certain subjects. I know a lot of beliefs have changed since Russell and Rutherford, but I am specifically interested in changes over the past 30 years."

My contact described what happened after he offered this excuse: "Just to compare with what the Watchtower teaches now on certain subjects. I know a lot of beliefs have changed since Russell and Rutherford, but I am specifically interested in changes over the past 30 years."

"And just why are you interested in doing that? What do you hope to find or prove?"

"Wait a moment," I responded, "are there things in those publications that I should not read?"

"No. But I just don't know why you would want to waste your time looking up old articles. The Governing Body makes sure that we are kept up to date."

"If that is the case, then why do they often quote from older publications and statements made in magazines some 25 or 30 years ago. Would that not indicate that they still feel what was written in those publications is still valid?"

The elder would not budge. "Why do you want to waste your time? Why don't you just concentrate on what is in the current publications and on JW.org. You will gain nothing by going back and reading those old books and magazines."

That's when I went for the throat. "I've been in your house and have seen your bookcase. It is filled with old publications. You have every bound Watchtower and Awake! collection since 1950 prominently displayed. You even have a full set of Rutherford's 'Rainbow series.' If they are of no particular value, why do you keep them? If they are there as historic curiosities, would it not be better to donate them to new Kingdom Hall or ship them back to the Society?"

"I have them, but don't read them."

"And why not?"

"There has been much new light since they were published and there is no value to them except for historic purposes."

That's when I ended the conversation with, "And that's exactly why I was asking you for the old CDs - for 'historic purposes.' But never mind, I'm sure I can find what I need from online sources."

HIs response was chilling: "Be careful brother. Be very careful. You could find yourself losing your faith or worse."

--------------------------

I've heard others tell me that elders have been very resistant to loaning out library books or even getting into discussions about old publications. One "active" brother told me that several weeks after asking questions about older publications, the CO made a "shepherding call" to his home and expressed concern that he might be "slipping into apostacy." When he asked the CO why he felt that was a possibility, the CO responded that it was because "you have been asking about older publications and have created real concern among the elders about the strength of your faith and commitment to the organization."

JV

23

What I really fear about JW.ORG

by StarTrekAngel in

much has been written, twitted and youtubed about the extent to which the wtbts may go in order to keep its members from peeking out of the box.

from name calling, constantly telling members about the dangers of apostasy, all the way to dfing anyone who dares to look outside.

many tools and theories have been brought forward.

Juan Viejo2

Eden One, et al -

I agree with your premise that by going "electronic" the JW.org (nee "The Watchtower") will be able to slowly but surely eliminate all evidence of past wrongdoing, misapplication of scripture, false and failed prophecies from their own online libraries and resources. They will decree that only versions of their online magazines, books, and other literature will be correct; all other versions, including versions printed by the Watchtower itself, will be unofficial or "tainted by apostates." They will convince their faithful followers that magazines and books printed in Rutherford's time and especially leading up to and during the 1975 debacle, have been modified or otherwise altered by Satan the Devil and his apostate followers.

The Mormon Church has done this with much of their older literature - even some of the writings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. The prophetic imaginings of George Orwell's 1984 will become fact, not fantasy. The Watchtower Society has been Orwellian in almost every sense after the failure of the 1975 prophecy.

How can they do this? By printing their "yearbooks" online, they can change numbers to show consistent growth even where their numbers have diminished. They can change text of older magazines and books to eliminate false statements or evidence of their errors.

Notice that they are only pushing JW.org to the public. The "Watchtower" identity is clearly beginning to fade. Mention of founders like Russell and Rutherford have dramatically reduced, and there is hardly any mention at all of WT superstars like Knorr, Covington, or Fred Franz in modern JW postings. Yes, the TV.JW.org presentations do show historical photos of 1930s and 1940s events and publishers, but always in self-promotional ways.

I'm guessing that by slowly eliminating all literature prior to the year 2000 from their online archives, they will hope that everything before that time will be almost impossible for then current JWs to find for themselves.

So it is up to those of us who have collected the older books, magazines, and other documents to archive them and be sure to pass them on to others in the future to keep the truth of the past alive.

After all, "it is by their words you shall know them." The Watchtower wants those words to fade away and become unavailable to future JWs. We need to make sure that never happens. Former JWs like Barbara Anderson, Paul Grundy, and many others are doing their best to keep the truth about the "Truth" alive.

JV

11

The Mentally Diseased Apostates Latest re-mix of JW video

by Newly Enlightened in

happy @ bethel michael jackson.

Juan Viejo2

I can see a lot of people in that video who would probably be a lot happier outside of the organization than in it. Just getting a chance to let loose, even for just a few moments, must be exhilarating for them.

I think the fact that these videos are even seeing the light of day is a very good thing. That makes crimes committed by JWs and the coverups authorized and enforced by the WT even more horrific and unexplainable. And Simon is right - the Michael Jackson song really is far more appropriate than "Happy" could ever be.

JV

11

What JW.ORG Needs - Live Chat Feature

by Garrett in

jw
friends

someone with influence needs to persuade the gb to add a live chat feature to the website.. i was strolling through the mormon site out of curiosity and noticed they had a live chat option.

golly, i can't pass this up.

i decided to talk to jake and spencer.

Juan Viejo2

I mentioned that JW.org needed a discussion area or comments like YouTube during my phone call to Watchtower last week. Was brushed off by the young woman who was handling my call. My guess is that this comes up nearly every day, but no way does the WT want to create a two-way conversation on their pride and joy website or streaming video.

57

Please Welcome me

by Sofia Lose in

jw
friends

have lurked here for many, many years.

female, latina, middle-aged, born-in, 3rd generation jw, northeast usa.

my fate is to continue to play the game 'till death do us part because the very strong and tangled web of friends, family, business, etc.

Juan Viejo2

Sofia - my websites get many emails from JWs just like you. Some are elders and continue to do their jobs as expected and never let on that they don't believe the WT bullshit at all. Breaking up families is often too traumatic for one person to do. You see this same approach taken by individual Catholics and "practicing" Jews - because if they didn't they would have no family, no friends, no home, no job, and no resources or family inheritance. They would become a nobody to everybody they know.

"Shadow Elder," a New York resident who has been discussed here several times and submitted a post to Ex-JW.com, was just such a person. He did eventually share his feelings with one of his sons. I have not heard from him in years, so my guess is that he and his son continue to pretend to be active and committed JWs just to keep their family together (Shadow told me that his wife would leave him and never let him see his kids again if he ever admitted to being an apostate.)

So Sofia - do what is right for you. But know that you have a very wide selection of friends here and can find excellent support on many ex-JW discussion websites. You will have far more friends than you can imagine who will not criticize you or call you a hypocrite for doing what you feel you have to do. At the same time we all hope that someday you will be able to break free and move away completely.

JV

41

How to Wear a Pinkie Ring, by Stephen Lett, Governing Body Member

by Oubliette in

always the fashionista amongst the governing body members, mr. stephen lett recently showed us how even an older man can display a certain swagger, a certain je nesais quoi that says, "i'm one of the anointed, and you're not!".

he does this in so many ways, but the one i want to draw our attention to is the way he rocked the theocratic fashion world with his wearing of a very manly pinkie ring in a recent wtbts video.. - -.

stephen lett of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses demonstrating how to wear a pinkie ring.

Juan Viejo2

While we are on this subject...

Has anyone been to a Kingdom Hall or convention when a speaker went rogue and went off the script? I have heard rumors that this has happened in the past, but have no idea exactly when, where or why. I have heard that the sound system mysteriously shut down in the middle of a talk at a District convention some years back when a COBE went way off script for a few minutes. Wasn't there (obviously), but would love to know if that ever really happened or if someone here has done that type of thing.

If it did, and I had been there, I would have stood up and given him a standing ovation and a cheer.

And then I would have been tossed out onto the parking lot and probably given a couple of kicks to the ribs.

JV

41

How to Wear a Pinkie Ring, by Stephen Lett, Governing Body Member

by Oubliette in

always the fashionista amongst the governing body members, mr. stephen lett recently showed us how even an older man can display a certain swagger, a certain je nesais quoi that says, "i'm one of the anointed, and you're not!".

he does this in so many ways, but the one i want to draw our attention to is the way he rocked the theocratic fashion world with his wearing of a very manly pinkie ring in a recent wtbts video.. - -.

stephen lett of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses demonstrating how to wear a pinkie ring.

Juan Viejo2

No Good Deed - I wouldn't get your hopes up about Lett getting kicked off the Governing Body anytime soon. He'll need to string out a lot more rope before he can hang himself and embarrass the Governing Body beyond the point where they will continue to put up with him.

Fred Franz was this same style of kook. The difference is that Franz wrote his own material, where (especially at conventions) Lett reads the same talk that any other speaker reads at other less important convention locations or in foreign languages.

I have no idea who actually writes the scripts and talks for these streaming videos, convention talks, or other special presentations. I'm sure there is a staff of writers who do this kind of work and then prepare standard formats with notations for the speakers to use (emphasis, gestures, pauses). I know from several sources that lesser speakers must present talks exactly as written and there are script checkers listening and verifying that every word and notation in the script is presented as noted. Any deviation from a prepared script can result in loss of privileges and removal from future speakers lists. Whether this applies to Governing Body special scripts written by the GB members themselves - I don't know. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

This practice has reportedly been extended down to the half-hour "public" talks (that term really does not apply any longer) given in Kingdom Halls. In the past, brothers would take the outline and add notes and their own emphasis to certain sequences, often adding scriptures or side remarks to flesh out the talk and make it less boring. I've heard that is not allowed any longer. While being on the public speakers list is quite an honor for elders and MSers, they can be pulled in a blink if they try to get creative in any noticeable way. This obviously does not apply to GB members and their towel boys.

JV

54

New "donation" arrangement begins to FAIL

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

so here we are, almost a year into the "new" congregation donation arrangement.

and its beginning, as was predicted, to fail miserably, and to have direct negative consequences on the poor sheep.. let me give you a little experience, directly from our congregation of about 80 publishers.

back in may, after reading the letter about the "new" arrangement, the elder body decided to "donate" the extra funds on hand to wt, as directed.

Juan Viejo2

NoGoodDeed and Outlaw - From what I am hearing donations in Kingdom Halls are down considerably. Emptying the local congregation bank accounts and declaring all Kingdom Halls to be property of the Watchtower Society and not the local congregations seems to have backfired badly.

But remember that most JWs are truly sheep and are willing to be sheared and herded by the dogs of the Watchtower organization.

One of my contacts in a local Kingdom Hall mentioned that everyone in his hall seems exhausted and joyless. The general attitude is to just get through the meeting and then get home to watch whatever was taped off the cable TV box. Although everyone says they are having family study nights, in reality very few really do. As one brother told him, "my family study night is sitting on the toilet scanning the study Watchtower on my cell phone. My wife glances at it, but really doesn't 'study' it. After all, what's to study and why? It's all the same shit warmed over and rotated through every 12-18 months. But if the elders ask, both my wife and I assure them that we faithfully have a study night. My wife drops a buck or two in the box and so do I about once a month. I really don't feel like they deserve a dime from me. But I can't go anywhere, I have too much to lose."

I think that describes the feelings of the majority, and might even include a lot of elders as well. There really is no love or enthusiasm in JW Land right now.

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

Listener - I really have no idea who Inform Ant is or why she has decided to make everyone who is part of AAWA a target for her abusive and profane personal attacks. But, as I've stated many times before, the USA is a free speech country (for the most part) and Ms. Ant has every right to do her thing as she wishes. What she says about me or my friends is really a non-issue for the most part because those who know us, even those who do not support what I do with AAWA or any of my websites, know that I am mostly harmless. I've met some people in my life that were a lot more threatening and abusive than Ms. Ant could ever be - and she just does her thing on YouTube for a few dozen occasional viewers. I must admit that she can be quite entertaining at times. She is not, and to my knowledge never has been, an AAWA volunteer or directly connected to AAWA in any way other than being a rather harsh critic.

As far as my call involving the young woman - I thought that she was trying to be helpful, but was very reluctant to engage me in conversation - as compared to "Joel" the computer support person. You'll note that I tried to pause and give her a chance to respond, but she seemed to limit herself to occasional "uh-Huh" in an agreeable but very restrictive way. It was almost like she was under orders not to engage with callers directly or express her opinion.

As you may have noticed, I made it clear from the very beginning that I was not a JW, but rather a critic and webmaster of several "critical JW discussion sites." I also made it a point not to get into a discussion of JW beliefs or policy, although I did sneak in a very brief reference to "child abuse." I did challenge her on the postal mail issue as I have a shoebox full of UPS and USPS delivery confirmations to the Watchtower, but not as single response.

Even after that, she still promoted snail-mail as their preferred communication. Very easy for them to just pass unopened envelopes through a shredder.

After my experience with these two calls, maybe I can come up with a better strategy for the next time to make for a more interesting exchange. We'll see...

And yes, "rebel8" is correct about the recording of telephone calls for most states (there are exceptions). What most existing "no recording" laws allow is for one party to a call to make a recording (businesses, emergency services, government offices, and newspapers all do this as general policy for training, documentary, and security reasons). The recording of a call ("tapping") by a third party without the knowledge of the persons on the call is prohibited in several states. There are exceptions to one party recording (California being one of them) - but New York is OK. A free downloadable guide is available online called "Reporter's Recording Guide" that covers and describes all of these laws state by state. I have a copy of that PDF report, but have lost the link (try Google search). Look for "Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press."

JV